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Reason for so many busts this season?


yanksman
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5 minutes ago, buzzkilloton said:

I didnt think I would read a take as terrible as Cooper Kupp is a system WR this season but P.Mahomes being not a top 5 QB at any point of his career has taken the cake. Well played rotoworld forums! 

If it was all because of Andy Reids system then Reid would have been winning superbowls way before Mahomes came to town. 

Laugh away.  Like I said it was a hot take.  Bewilderment is a common emotion when faced with something possibly stupi dhaha. 

But if you want to attack Andy Reid, which is pretty lazy analysis, I'd point you the career of QB Alex Smith. 

If not for playing under Reid in KC, Alex Smith might still be considered one of the biggest QB busts of all time.  He was horrendous on the Niners. 

Under Reid, Alex Smith, a former meme, won between 9 and 12 games for five consecutive years.  That's remarkable consistency.  What's more, Reid actually made Smith look good. 

I didn't say Mahomes was bad.  I'd put him in that #6 to #8 range for most of his career in pure talent.  He's one of the top QBs in the league.  But I think he got very, very lucky in his system and the period in which he played, which perfectly took advantage of his strongest skills. 

He's a very good QB who was put into an excellent offensive system, which made him look like #1. 

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16 minutes ago, Rainyy said:

Laugh away.  Like I said it was a hot take.  Bewilderment is a common emotion when faced with something possibly stupi dhaha. 

But if you want to attack Andy Reid, which is pretty lazy analysis, I'd point you the career of QB Alex Smith. 

If not for playing under Reid in KC, Alex Smith might still be considered one of the biggest QB busts of all time.  He was horrendous on the Niners. 

Under Reid, Alex Smith, a former meme, won between 9 and 12 games for five consecutive years.  That's remarkable consistency.  What's more, Reid actually made Smith look good. 

I didn't say Mahomes was bad.  I'd put him in that #6 to #8 range for most of his career in pure talent.  He's one of the top QBs in the league.  But I think he got very, very lucky in his system and the period in which he played, which perfectly took advantage of his strongest skills. 

He's a very good QB who was put into an excellent offensive system, which made him look like #1. 

I never attacked Andy Reid I agree hes a good coach. My point is if his system is that good he would of been winning superbowls long before Mahomes came to town. Reid knew he needed Mahomes hence the 2 1st and 3rd rounder he used to move up to get him. 

People used to say this exact same narrative about Tom Brady. "Brady only wins so much because of Bill". Suddenly he goes to TB Bill isnt winning **** and Brady wins a super bowl in his 40s and is putting up huge numbers. 

Edit-

When i say "that good" I'm not doubting that his offense is good. I'm saying good enough to turn average talent into a MVP that throws 50TDS 12ints. The only other QBS to throw 50TDS are Manning and Brady. Mahomes is a special talent no question. 

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27 minutes ago, buzzkilloton said:

I never attacked Andy Reid I agree hes a good coach. My point is if his system is that good he would of been winning superbowls long before Mahomes came to town. Reid knew he needed Mahomes hence the 2 1st and 3rd rounder he used to move up to get him. 

People used to say this exact same narrative about Tom Brady. "Brady only wins so much because of Bill". Suddenly he goes to TB Bill isnt winning **** and Brady wins a super bowl in his 40s and is putting up huge numbers. 

Edit-

When i say "that good" I'm not doubting that his offense is good. I'm saying good enough to turn average talent into a MVP that throws 50TDS 12ints. The only other QBS to throw 50TDS are Manning and Brady. Mahomes is a special talent no question. 

KC went to the playoffs four out of five years with the Alex Smith plus Andy Reid combo. 

Mahomes is obviously much better than Alex Smith so he took them to the next level.  But he did have the luck of joining a 10 win team.  Most rookie QBs are drafted to the bottom tier teams and have to deal with bad coaches, mismanaged organizations, and a terrible supporting staff. 

Mahomes was inserted into a very good team that he made elite. 

Honest question, would we be talking about Mahomes as one of the greats already if he were drafted to say the NY Giants?  I doubt it. 

As everyone who plays fantasy should know, production is a combination of talent and opportunity.  Opportunity referring to coaching/offensive system, supporting players, and volume/role. 

Not surprisingly, I disagree with you on Brady as well.  He picked the Bucs very wisely as the team best suited to preserve his legacy. 

The Buccaneers were sneaky good the year before Brady arrived.  They were 5th in defensive DVOA with an elite unit [which continued under Brady].  They had one of the top Olines.  They had an excellent crop of receiving weapons in Evans and Godwin. 

It was really the perfect landing spot for a QB.  No challenge.

Jameis Winston almost single-handedly torpedoed that team with turnovers.  He had 30 interceptions and 12 fumbles [in one season!] before Brady arrived.  That is by far the most interceptions by any QB in the modern era.

The Bucs were such a good team that even with Winston actively sabotaging them, they won 7 games.  They would have been better off with almost any QB in the NFL that year.  The Bucs were above average to elite in virtually aspect of the game aside from QB play. 

Brady was still very good for the Bucs.  But, again, a situation where a good player is dropped into an excellent environment with minimal adversity. 

Edited by Rainyy
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Just now, Rainyy said:

KC went to the playoffs four out of five years with the Alex Smith plus Andy Reid combo. 

Mahomes is obviously much better than Alex Smith so he took them to the next level.  But he did have the luck of joining a 10 win team.  Most rookie QBs are drafted to the bottom tier teams and have to deal with bad coaches, mismanaged organizations, and a terrible supporting staff. 

Mahomes was inserted into a very good team that he made elite. 

Honest question, would we be talking about Mahomes as one of the greats already if he were drafted to say the NY Giants?  I doubt it. 

As everyone who plays fantasy should know, production is a combination of talent and opportunity.  Opportunity referring to coaching/offensive system, supporting players, and volume/role. 

Not surprisingly, I disagree with you on Brady as well.  He picked the Bucs very wisely as the team best suited to preserve his legacy. 

The Buccaneers were sneaky good the year before Brady arrived.  They were 5th in defensive DVOA with an elite unit [which continued under Brady].  They had one of the top Olines.  They had an excellent crop of receiving weapons in Evans and Godwin. 

It was really the perfect landing spot for a QB.  No challenge.

Jameis Winston almost single-handedly torpedoed that team with turnovers.  He had 30 interceptions and 12 fumbles [in one season!] before Brady arrived.  That is by far the most interceptions by any QB in the modern era. 

The Bucs were such a good team that even with Winston actively sabotaging them, they won 7 wins.  They would have been better off with almost any QB in the NFL that year.  They were above average to elite in virtually aspect of the game aside QB play. 

Brady was still very good for the Bucs.  But, again, a situation where a good player is dropped into an excellent environment with minimal adversity. 

If you want to argue its the system not the talent look at the numbers of Mahomes compard to Smith. Mahomes doubled Alex Smiths career high in passing TDS his first season as the starting QB. If that doesnt show you how much better Mahomes is then Smith nothing will.

If you search "best QB seasons ever" You will find Mahomes on every single list. You wont see any other Reid QBs just Mahomes. Also every QB on the list is a legit hall of fame ultra talented QB. 

So you were one of the guys making the argument about Brady being a product of Bill B. Not a surprise you would do the same again here.  Rather then admit defeat you double down on it Brady going to another great team. Again look at Bradys numbers with the Bucs compared to those before him its pretty obv how good he is. 

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6 minutes ago, buzzkilloton said:

If you want to argue its the system not the talent look at the numbers of Mahomes compard to Smith. Mahomes doubled Alex Smiths career high in passing TDS his first season as the starting QB. If that doesnt show you how much better Mahomes is then Smith nothing will.

I've very clearly said, several times now, that production is a combination of talent and system.  I very clearly said Mahomes was a lot better than Alex Smith.  I thought this was in all in good fun before, but you're now starting to irritate me. 

You are either intent on reading me in bad faith, in which case you should f--- off and accept a permanent ban, or you have poor reading comprehension.  Either way, you're not worth my time.

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Just now, Rainyy said:

I've very clearly said, several times now, that production is a combination of talent and system.  I very clearly said Mahomes was a lot better than Alex Smith.  I thought this was in all in good fun before, but you're now starting to irritate me. 

You are either intent on reading me in bad faith or have poor reading comprehension.  Either way, you're not worth my time. 

Hair Flip But U Rong Doe GIF - Hair Flip But U Rong Doe But Youre Wrong Though GIFs

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With how many distractions there are in life and how much money these kids make based on not even winning anything anymore, I wouldn't be surprised if lack of dedication to the sport is a thing compared to the older generations. I don't think these kids have the passion your players of yesteryear had imo 

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Players of yesteryear did not have the advantages of modern sports science. Remember Ken Stabler, AKA Snake? HOFer? Man partied away his youth and looked 60 at 35. What about Lawrence Taylor? His... exploits are well-known. Jim Brown was no stranger to varied interests away from the field. Retired early, in part, because of them. I wouldn't be surprised if HBO is already working on the 90s Cowboys dynasty. #WinningTime

Interesting take by Rainyy. Whether Mahomes is 1 or 3 or 8 is irrelevant. The point that the Jim Johnson-style blitz heavy defense is gone is notable. Here's an article supporting this claim:

https://www.sharpfootballanalysis.com/analysis/defense-blitz-coverage-staley-fangio-2022-sharp-football-preview/

Perhaps it goes against my claim that the 20s will mark the end of RB supremacy in fantasy value. Maybe not?

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My roster is currently loaded with so much talent that I have a really hard time making lineup decisions. The fact that any player can bust or blow up on any given Sunday given the ebb and flow of performances of even the early round surefire picks is causing me a headache. Nice problem to have, but I hope some consistency starts to somewhat set in moving forward.

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Just now, samco357 said:

My roster is currently loaded with so much talent that I have a really hard time making lineup decisions. The fact that any player can bust or blow up on any given Sunday given the ebb and flow of performances of even the early round surefire picks is causing me a headache. Nice problem to have, but I hope some consistency starts to somewhat set in moving forward.

*monkey paw curls*

Half your roster is injured in Wednesday practice.

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I think a lot of the big names at RB are getting up there in age and wear & tear.

Derrick Henry.  Alvin Kamara.  Christian McCaffrey.  Austin Ekeler.  Ezekiel Elliott.  Even Joe Mixon and Dalvin Cook.

Approaching their late 20s and these guys have all piled up several full seasons' worth of carries and catches.

Time for the next cohort to step up but we may need to wait until the 2023 rookie class hits to get back to having a critical mass of young, healthy, talented and productive running backs.

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Just now, SharkSwimmer said:

I think a lot of the big names at RB are getting up there in age and wear & tear.

Derrick Henry.  Alvin Kamara.  Christian McCaffrey.  Austin Ekeler.  Ezekiel Elliott.  Even Joe Mixon and Dalvin Cook.

Approaching their late 20s and these guys have all piled up several full seasons' worth of carries and catches.

Time for the next cohort to step up but we may need to wait until the 2023 rookie class hits to get back to having a critical mass of young, healthy, talented and productive running backs.

Bijan look like the truth though

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