Russell Wilson 2022 Outlook

[colepenhagen]

and hes 33 not 40 . and "maybe" a couple good years seems a little low ball.

[IlliniGuy76]

6 minutes ago, colepenhagen said:

and hes 33 not 40 . and "maybe" a couple good years seems a little low ball.

Will be 34 by time next season is over - not that it really matters.

Part of my "concern" about Wilson is two-fold:  a)  He's been a duel threat and his body has taken a beating unlike those QB's that have  played well into their late 30's - Rodgers, Brees, Brady etc. b)  I'm curious to see how his hand is going into next year - that was a weird/bad injury to have

[Iron-cock]

23 hours ago, Gohawks said:

No I was absolutely not joking.

Their WRs have 1 1000 yard season in their career combined and Melvin Gordon is a washed up bum. Penny only had 100 less rushing yards than Williams in damn near half the carries.

Deeper? Sure. More potential? Yes. Better? No. 

Sutton Broke 1100 yards in 14 starts with Flacco and Drew Lock throwing in his general direction.

DK and Lockett had Wilson.  It makes a big difference.   I still like DK, but we are going to see how good the Denver WRs can be with a quality QB.

 

[colepenhagen]

29 minutes ago, IlliniGuy76 said:

Will be 34 by time next season is over - not that it really matters.

Part of my "concern" about Wilson is two-fold:  a)  He's been a duel threat and his body has taken a beating unlike those QB's that have  played well into their late 30's - Rodgers, Brees, Brady etc. b)  I'm curious to see how his hand is going into next year - that was a weird/bad injury to have

i dont see that changing. the duel threat part and if he did run less would it be that big of a deal? im sure he can still extended plays ect.

he still had 65%comp 25/6 td/int ratio. 7.8 yds/att basically on par with his last few seasons

out of all the qbs in the nfl i would  put wilson as one of the last to phone it in/not give everything to be great. maybe  that wont be enough and there is a decline but i love the move for den as they wont/cant comptete with herbert/mahomes for the next what 5-10 years without a legit nfl star qb. (paxton/oswiler/lock/teddy/flacco) please end this and they did.

and i dont like wilson all that much.

Edited March 9, 2022 by colepenhagen

[Iron-cock]

22 hours ago, lolcopter said:

Excellent trade value imo

It's a great deal for Denver.  The picks don't matter that much...in the grand scheme of things you can go 50 years and not land a QB of Russell Wilson's caliber in the draft.

Edited March 9, 2022 by Iron-cock

[BGDDYKWL]

10 hours ago, Joe Mama said:

He was also very injured for a chunk of the season, take out the game he got hurt and the two games after his return when he clearly returned too soon, and he had 24 TDs and 3 Int's in 11 games.

His efficiency is phenomenal. But he also seems to be getting a little gunshy. I know it sounds crazy, but sometimes you want a little more gunslinger mentality. Almost seems like Wilson won't force a tough throw and risk an INT. Great trait most of the time, but when you're losing you can take it too far. Carr does that a lot as well. I think the argument could be made that so does Rodgers. 

Also possible he was just checked out of Seattle and that's why he seemed lethargic. I wouldn't completely dismiss that, I just don't think that explains the entirety of it. 

[BMcP]

7 minutes ago, BGDDYKWL said:

His efficiency is phenomenal. But he also seems to be getting a little gunshy. I know it sounds crazy, but sometimes you want a little more gunslinger mentality. Almost seems like Wilson won't force a tough throw and risk an INT. Great trait most of the time, but when you're losing you can take it too far. Carr does that a lot as well. I think the argument could be made that so does Rodgers. 

Also possible he was just checked out of Seattle and that's why he seemed lethargic. I wouldn't completely dismiss that, I just don't think that explains the entirety of it. 

The most gunshy guy out there just won back-to-back MVPs and a cool $50M per.

[Gohawks]

5 hours ago, BMcP said:

The most gunshy guy out there just won back-to-back MVPs and a cool $50M per.

I’m sorry but Rodgers bring gunshy is utter BS and flat out wrong.

Go watch tape of him and then come back and tell me he’s gun shy. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Gohawks

[Gohawks]

With Wilson there’s a few concerns which I’ve expressed multiple times:

1. He’s clearly lost a step and his career has been made on scramble plays. When forced to throw sitting in the pocket he hasn’t been the best. Sure QBs go to 40 but QBs with his play style don’t.

2. His pocket presence is…questionable. People like to blame the line when last year the line was fine. He just has no confidence to throw into tight windows and holds onto the ball to long.

Not saying he won’t be great but I’m not as confident in him as most people seem to be. The last year + has been bizarre with how he’s played. I’ve mentioned before but most of his stats look closer to that of Baker Mayfield than someone like Rodger’s who he gets lumped in with. 

[BMcP]

5 minutes ago, Gohawks said:

I’m sorry but Rodgers bring gunshy is utter BS and flat out wrong.

Go watch tape of him and then come back and tell me he’s gone shy. 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/02/21/aaron-rodgers-draws-criticism-for-playing-it-too-safe/amp/

[BMcP]

I’m sorry, ‘Hawks.  It’s true.

 

Been a time of harsh revelations, but here we are, “Go.”

Edited March 10, 2022 by BMcP

[Joe Mama]

3 hours ago, Gohawks said:

With Wilson there’s a few concerns which I’ve expressed multiple times:

1. He’s clearly lost a step and his career has been made on scramble plays. When forced to throw sitting in the pocket he hasn’t been the best. Sure QBs go to 40 but QBs with his play style don’t.

2. His pocket presence is…questionable. People like to blame the line when last year the line was fine. He just has no confidence to throw into tight windows and holds onto the ball to long.

Not saying he won’t be great but I’m not as confident in him as most people seem to be. The last year + has been bizarre with how he’s played. I’ve mentioned before but most of his stats look closer to that of Baker Mayfield than someone like Rodger’s who he gets lumped in with. 

OL was ranked 25th in 2021 by PFF 

25. SEATTLE SEAHAWKS (DOWN 1)

LT Duane Brown | 72.0
LG Damien Lewis | 57.7
C Ethan Pocic | 68.0
RG Gabe Jackson | 63.6
RT Brandon Shell | 67.6

Seattle’s offensive line just can’t find a way to get out of its rut, and if anything is going to convince quarterback Russell Wilson that maybe the grass is greener somewhere else, it may be that. Duane Brown has been the unit's best player since the team traded for him in 2017, but he just posted his lowest PFF grade (72.0) since he was a rookie. Wilson was under pressure on 37.0% of his dropbacks this season, one of the higher marks in the league.

[Spyplane]

One thing people forget about Russ is his size. Russ is talented and smart but will his Aaron Rodger's recruitment tool of a coach be able to scheme to overcome Russ'... shortcoming? Maybe and hopefully because I like Russ. 

And that's not meant to be knock shorter QBs, one of my all time favorites is Doug Flutie. Its just that not all coaches are created equal... And coaching can dramatically impact stats. You can't run all the exact same stuff for a sub six footer as you can for a prototypical sized QB. 

[Spyplane]

50 minutes ago, Joe Mama said:

OL was ranked 25th in 2021 by PFF 

25. SEATTLE SEAHAWKS (DOWN 1)

LT Duane Brown | 72.0
LG Damien Lewis | 57.7
C Ethan Pocic | 68.0
RG Gabe Jackson | 63.6
RT Brandon Shell | 67.6

Seattle’s offensive line just can’t find a way to get out of its rut, and if anything is going to convince quarterback Russell Wilson that maybe the grass is greener somewhere else, it may be that. Duane Brown has been the unit's best player since the team traded for him in 2017, but he just posted his lowest PFF grade (72.0) since he was a rookie. Wilson was under pressure on 37.0% of his dropbacks this season, one of the higher marks in the league.

Denver wasn't much better last season. Plus they have new coaches who will be less experienced.

[lolcopter]

35 minutes ago, Spyplane said:

One thing people forget about Russ is his size. Russ is talented and smart but will his Aaron Rodger's recruitment tool of a coach be able to scheme to overcome Russ'... shortcoming? Maybe and hopefully because I like Russ. 

And that's not meant to be knock shorter QBs, one of my all time favorites is Doug Flutie. Its just that not all coaches are created equal... And coaching can dramatically impact stats. You can't run all the exact same stuff for a sub six footer as you can for a prototypical sized QB. 

Lol is this a serious post? Where have you been the last decade?

[ThreadKiller]

2 hours ago, Joe Mama said:

OL was ranked 25th in 2021 by PFF 

25. SEATTLE SEAHAWKS (DOWN 1)

LT Duane Brown | 72.0
LG Damien Lewis | 57.7
C Ethan Pocic | 68.0
RG Gabe Jackson | 63.6
RT Brandon Shell | 67.6

Seattle’s offensive line just can’t find a way to get out of its rut, and if anything is going to convince quarterback Russell Wilson that maybe the grass is greener somewhere else, it may be that. Duane Brown has been the unit's best player since the team traded for him in 2017, but he just posted his lowest PFF grade (72.0) since he was a rookie. Wilson was under pressure on 37.0% of his dropbacks this season, one of the higher marks in the league.

Ah, offensive line rankings being used again...

Did you know that when a player holds the ball "too long" resulting in QB pressure, the offensive line gets dinged for it, helping contribute to rankings like this? These rankings are a good tool to use sure, but ranking an offensive line is much more in depth than these rankings allude to...It's just not as simply as "welp, so and so was ranked in an online ranking as the ___ ranked offensive lineman, so it's factual!" I know many of you here and through the media (not you specifically, I am speaking in generalities) like to attach a tangible ranking to offensive lineman for whatever reason but it's just not that simple. 

Not saying that  their offensive line was amazing or anything, but context is important here. Wilson holds on to the ball longer than most, so in theory he is going to make his o line look worse than they really are at times...

[ThreadKiller]

5 hours ago, Gohawks said:

With Wilson there’s a few concerns which I’ve expressed multiple times:

1. He’s clearly lost a step and his career has been made on scramble plays. When forced to throw sitting in the pocket he hasn’t been the best. Sure QBs go to 40 but QBs with his play style don’t.

2. His pocket presence is…questionable. People like to blame the line when last year the line was fine. He just has no confidence to throw into tight windows and holds onto the ball to long.

Not saying he won’t be great but I’m not as confident in him as most people seem to be. The last year + has been bizarre with how he’s played. I’ve mentioned before but most of his stats look closer to that of Baker Mayfield than someone like Rodger’s who he gets lumped in with. 

This!

But, but, but. When he does this, it lowers his offensive lines "ranking" on people's favorite internet player ranking system. Context is important and QBs play a large role in the "ranking" of an offensive line...

[Joe Mama]

39 minutes ago, ThreadKiller said:

Ah, offensive line rankings being used again...

Did you know that when a player holds the ball "too long" resulting in QB pressure, the offensive line gets dinged for it, helping contribute to rankings like this? These rankings are a good tool to use sure, but ranking an offensive line is much more in depth than these rankings allude to...It's just not as simply as "welp, so and so was ranked in an online ranking as the ___ ranked offensive lineman, so it's factual!" I know many of you here and through the media (not you specifically, I am speaking in generalities) like to attach a tangible ranking to offensive lineman for whatever reason but it's just not that simple. 

Not saying that  their offensive line was amazing or anything, but context is important here. Wilson holds on to the ball longer than most, so in theory he is going to make his o line look worse than they really are at times...

Fine, ranking or not nobody has ever said Seattle has had a good offensive line.

[predator_05]

20 hours ago, Iron-cock said:

It's a great deal for Denver.  The picks don't matter that much...in the grand scheme of things you can go 50 years and not land a QB of Russell Wilson's caliber in the draft.

Trading for a veteran QB on a short term deal could be the next league-wide fad. 

For teams that are (more or less) a decent QB away from making a Super Bowl run, there's very little to gain from a handful of draft picks. 

Drafting a QB makes sense, but you need to have all the pieces in place; supportive coaching staff, players with complementary skills and established "values". It's hard to put it all together in one season, which is why most QBs tend to fail early in their careers. A newly drafted QB can't fix a broken team. 

A good veteran QB doesn't need all the handholding; he walks right in and does his job from day 1. Stafford and Brady played at a high level from day 1, they were set up to succeed. 

Wilson will do exactly the same. He's set up to succeed in Denver. 

Maybe this is the approach that some of the league's long-time losers should consider. Are the jets really gonna go anywhere with Zach Wilson? Or the bears with Justin fields? I mean...they could, but it's unlikely. 

[Roughingthegoff]

Everything on paper looks good for him, except the Denver OL may be even worse than Seattle’s. Denver needs to install a Chip Kelly type offense as that’s what Russel does best. You don’t need to be fast to keep defenses honest in a well-run RPO, see Nick Foles in Philly.

 

[predator_05]

21 hours ago, colepenhagen said:

i dont see that changing. the duel threat part and if he did run less would it be that big of a deal? im sure he can still extended plays ect.

he still had 65%comp 25/6 td/int ratio. 7.8 yds/att basically on par with his last few seasons

out of all the qbs in the nfl i would  put wilson as one of the last to phone it in/not give everything to be great. maybe  that wont be enough and there is a decline but i love the move for den as they wont/cant comptete with herbert/mahomes for the next what 5-10 years without a legit nfl star qb. (paxton/oswiler/lock/teddy/flacco) please end this and they did.

and i dont like wilson all that much.

He's got plenty of gas left in the tank, but at this point he's a better "real life QB" than a fantasy QB. 

For fantasy, you could draft around 7 other guys that'll score in his range every week.

Even with his outstanding efficiency, he doesn't really throw enough, and Denver's got a good enough run game (especially if they bring back Gordon). 

Still good, but not elite. Definitely not a consensus top 5 QB like he was a few years ago. 

[Deuce1042]

Russell Wilson doesn't utilize the middle of the field as much as other QBs in that elite tier, he impulsively scrambles out of clean pockets and operates outside of structure (which is difficult to rely on against elite caliber defenses in the playoffs), and a slip in athleticism can lead to a steep decline in his performance. 

 

I've always thought Russ was a very good QB but Pete Carroll pulled the plug on "Let Russ Cook" for a reason. Just couldn't execute at a high level once teams dropped another safety back and started playing less man coverage underneath. He looked like Superman the first half of 2020 when he was seeing looks that are favorable to his skillset (Which is throwing the ball intermediate and deep especially on crossers), but you started to see his deficiencies as a QB once defensive coordinators adjusted. 

 

Maybe Seattle shouldn't have relied THAT much on their run game but dropping back 40+ times a game with Russ wasn't the best way for them to win either. Aaron Rodgers doesn't even drop back that much. 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Deuce1042

[Chippa]

3 hours ago, Roughingthegoff said:

Everything on paper looks good for him, except the Denver OL may be even worse than Seattle’s.

 

ha!

no

[ThreadKiller]

4 hours ago, Joe Mama said:

Fine, ranking or not nobody has ever said Seattle has had a good offensive line.

Oh, I agree. They are not one of the better units. But to claim that Wilson could be leaving due to that (while using PFF ranking to back it up) is incomplete. Part of the reason they are ranked what they are is because of things that Wilson does/doesn't do. I just think some people use those rankings as absolutes way too much rather than just a loose measuring guide.

[Gohawks]

10 hours ago, BMcP said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/02/21/aaron-rodgers-draws-criticism-for-playing-it-too-safe/amp/

 

10 hours ago, BMcP said:

I’m sorry, ‘Hawks.  It’s true.

 

Been a time of harsh revelations, but here we are, “Go.”

I’m sorry but that article is wrong.

I’m not a Rodger’s fan. In fact I probably lean towards the he’s overrated department. However, it’s BS. Even last year he had multiple awful interceptions. Rodger’s throws the ball into absurd windows all the time. Often times he does this with a man open for a check down. Again, watch the film yourself. I don’t care about an article from one of the worst sports websites.

He’s just really really good at football.